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RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

bradig — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:17:00 GMT

I have used vinegar in this situation, no soaps as mentioned before. and a lot of elbow grease.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

bto83 — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:23:12 GMT

I don't have any advice for a specific brand name of ammonia, but probably the more generic it is the better. As Hailey's very detailed article says, anything that has extra fragrances, etc is not suitable and the ingredients or additives should be disclosed on the container to help figure out which ones are bad (and you can always give it the shake test to help).

I would also recommend getting chemical reagent drip tests for testing your water parameters. Dip sticks will spoil and give false readings if they're exposed to too much humidity in the air (and definitely if you accidentally drip water on them) and are not known for incredible accuracy even when they're unspoiled.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

MrGrumpyGills — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:10:35 GMT

Reply to Hailey:

Okay so I will start adding in the Prime as well, I had no idea I needed the ammonia. :O.. The guy at the store said nothing about that, and we told him we were new.(We went to Frank and Pegs Fish & Pet Place) I dont know what kind to get since I have to get some, any recommendations on which kind?

-I dont have any stick testers for ammonia but I can tell you the other results I have right now: Nitrate- 0 (safe), Nitrite- 0 (safe), Total Hardness- 75 (soft), Total Alkalinity- 40 (low), pH- 6.8 (neutral). The only time I will have to go out and get things is maybe this weekend.. not sure, ill talk to my parent about it. Most likely we will go to Petsmart.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

Hailey — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:56:51 GMT

I tend to just dechlorinate anyway (at the dose recommended for chloramine) because even though my water dept says it doesn't use chloramine, they may start some day and I don't want to find out the hard way.

And it is fine to use both Stability and Prime when cycling. Stability may or may not make it happen faster, but since you have it, go ahead and use it. Are you using bottled ammonia to cycle with? You made sure it did not contain fragrances, dyes, surfectants, or anything else other than ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) and water, right? Have you been testing daily? What are your ammonia and nitrite levels now? It's a good idea to keep us up to date on your readings so we can help you through the cycling.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

bto83 — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:08:39 GMT

Chlorine kills most types of bacteria, including the beneficial ones. You don't want any in your tank while cycling or after. 3 days of aeration would be enough for any chlorine to evaporate out, but if your tapwater is treated with chloramine (also toxic) it will still be in there. You can contact your water department and see how your water is treated, or you can just err on the side of caution and dechlorinate your water per the instructions.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

MrGrumpyGills — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:19:14 GMT

:O!!!!! I worried now because we have it cycling and this is what I am using every day on it: Stability- I think its by Seachem, blue bottle, this guy at the store gave it to us to start the cycle. What i am worried about is the dechlorinated water?!?! We have stuff for that too called: Prime-also by Seachem, its a red bottle. BUT*-He said we should start using it when we get the fish!?* So now I am wondering which to do?? Now or later?? The tank has been cycling for about 3 days I started it on June 17, Sunday. Please help as soon as you can! Thanks

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

Hailey — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 05:15:33 GMT

Here's another article on fishless cycling that goes into more detail than the one I linked you to the first time. Maybe that will help. If not, feel free to ask questions.

HOW TO FISHLESS CYCLE YOUR AQUARIUM

By Chad & Hailey

Before we tell you how to fishless cycle, we will define cycling, and explain the difference between fishless cycling and cycling with fish. Cycling (also known as the nitrogen cycle) is a natural and inevitable process by which the toxic byproduct of the metabolic processes of fish, ammonia, is turned into less dangerous compounds by bacteria.

Fish and decomposing food and plants produce waste in the form of ammonia which builds uncontrolled in an un-cycled tank. Fish + ammonia = stress/death. Ammonia causes gill damage and consequent suffocation, neurological damage, and hemorrhage of the capillaries in the skin and organs, as well as making fish very susceptible to diseases because of stress. Cycling begins when two kinds of airborne bacteria (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter) settle into the water and attach themselves to surfaces in the tank (especially in the filter media and substrate), seeking that ammonia as a food source. The Nitrosomonas bacteria consume ammonia, turning it into another similar, but slightly less dangerous compound, nitrite. The Nitrobacter bacteria then consume the nitrite, converting it into a far less dangerous compound, nitrate. Fish can handle nitrate as long as it is kept below 40ppm, which can be accomplished easily in a well stocked tank with regular partial water changes.

Because it is inevitable and will happen naturally, cycling can be accomplished in quite a few ways. It is often done with fish in the tank, allowing the process to happen naturally. Most people buy their first aquarium, set it up, add dechlorinated water, and add fish the same day or within a few days, thinking all they have to do is let the water temperature reach a desired point. After two to four weeks the fish start dying, and they don’t know why. It is because until the tank has fully cycled, the fish are swimming in a toxic pool of ammonia and/or nitrite. This is why allowing the process to happen naturally is a very bad idea. The fish that do survive the cycling process will have suffered, and many will have sustained permanent damage. Their suffering can be kept to a minimum by testing the water regularly and performing water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low, but a certain amount of these toxins must be allowed to exist in the tank in order to feed the bacteria during cycling, which results in fish suffering.

Fishless cycling is a method which makes this process occur before adding fish to the tank. With fishless cycling there are no fish to harm, and a bottle of ammonia is cheaper than fish anyway. Furthermore, the amount of ammonia added is more than that produced by a reasonable number of cycling fish, which results in a faster growth of bacterial colonies, and larger colonies when complete because bacterial colonies will only grow to the largest size that can be supported by the available food source. This gives you the option of fully stocking your tank after the cycling is complete as long as you are careful not to overstock. And finally, fishless cycling is faster because you are not waiting for the ammonia to spike at 4-5ppm which can take weeks, but rather, dosing it to that level the first day. These reasons, as well as many others, are why we always strongly recommend fishless cycling.

Now comes the “How to” part.

Your tank should be fully set-up with substrate, filter, heater, décor, and plants and filled with dechlorinated water. Your water temperature should be stable at 85-86 degrees and you should also provide extra aeration because the bacteria you are attempting to grow are aerobic (meaning they require oxygen to live and breed) and the higher the temperature of the water, the less oxygen it can hold. This can be accomplished by lowering the water level in the tank a few inches, allowing the filter to make a bigger splash or by simply adding an air stone and pump. If possible you should “seed” the tank by adding a cup of gravel, a piece of filter media, ornaments, plants, or anything that has come from an established, disease free tank (filter media such as sponges, floss, and biowheels are the most effective at seeding the tank, and can be placed in the filter in your new tank). If you lack access to a safe established tank, you can purchase a bottle of BioSpira to help seed the tank (keep in mind there are other products that say they will do the same thing, but they rarely work, and are a waste of your money). The store you purchase it from should keep it refrigerated though, so if it is not, the bacteria are probably dead anyway, and it won’t help you.

Supplies

There are several supplies you will need to fishless cycle your aquarium. You will need a good test kit for ammonia, one for nitrite, and one for nitrate. We suggest a master freshwater test kit with liquid reagents and test tubes (like the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master test kit), as dip strips tend to give inaccurate, vague readings. You may need to purchase an additional test kit for either nitrate or ammonia if you buy a master kit, as some brands lack one or the other of these tests...make sure you end up with all three of the tests you will need. You will also need pure ammonia (often called "clear ammonia"). You can find ammonia at stores like Walmart, grocery stores (often what you want is the cheap store brand), or hardware stores. Or, a better grade of ammonia can be found in chemical supply stores. There are two different kinds of ammonia, ammonium chloride and ammonium hydroxide. Ammonium hydroxide is very dilute making it difficult to judge the proper amount to add. Also, these are sold as cleaning solutions and often contain scents, dyes and surfactants, all of which are detrimental to your aquarium. So, if you use ammonium hydroxide, make sure it is free of any scents, dyes, and surfactants; it should only list ammonium and soft water (some may list chelating agents...this will be fine). If you are still unsure, you can shake the bottle. Ammonia with surfactants will foam, while "good" ammonia will not. We suggest the use of ACS or reagent grade granular ammonium chloride or ammonium hydroxide. We suggest using granular because when using a liquid, it is harder to accurately measure because as it ages, the concentration changes much more than granular ammonia. Here is a link to find out more about ammonia: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60260. And finally, you will need a clean dropper or clean measuring spoons. A dropper is better when using liquid ammonia because it is much more precise.

Now we are ready to begin cycling.

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

MrGrumpyGills — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:19:36 GMT

What I used was the regular vinegar, (distilled with water, and acetic strength) something like that. It had a smell to it.. doesnt every vinegar though?? It seemed to work well enough, im not sure though, we are letting it air out overnight and ive washed everything else with water. I decided that I am going to get Tiger Barbs as my main fish!! Very excited but I have to cycle my tank first.. bummer. Thanks :]

RE: Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

bto83 — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:40:46 GMT

I've never tried that before but it might work as long as you make sure your vinegar is ONLY acetic acid and water (no fragrance, flavor, etc). I'm not sure all those mineral deposits will be only limescale though so they may not react with the vinegar. Definitely do not use CLR or some other cleaning product, that would certainly contaminate the tank.

I mostly just use cold water (hot water will not dissolve calcium deposits well) and my fingernail to get it off. Definitely not an efficient or fun way to get rid of that junk, but safe.

There are at least a few different ways of fishless cycling a tank, but the only one I've ever done involves media, ornaments, substrate and water from an established tank which won't work for you. I'm sure someone here can you walk you through the "start from scratch" methods and help you pick the best one.

Dechlorinated Water And Cycling

MrGrumpyGills — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:54:28 GMT

Okay so i am getting a tank this weekend about 35 gallons, because a guy from my moms work just had it sitting out for a year. We can have it for free! Im soosoo excited! Anyway hehe..*The real thing i need to know is what is the best way to get rid of the Mineral Deposits? * I was thinking the vinager but im not sure.. :] Thanks a bunch

p.s. not sure if i spelled vinager* right i tried spell check!

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Also im a little bit confused on how to cycle my tank, i want to do it without fish. Also what supplies i will really need to get for it. You guys are the best! :] If you cant answer both questions you can answer either one!