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RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

smelly — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:53:39 GMT

[quote]David Lass (7/5/2009)

The list is excellent, and I have only two comments.

1) Test strips -- I have run tests on liquid and dry reagent test kits vs. test strips and the test strips are, to my way of thinking, much better for the average/beginning hobbyist. You don't really need to know what the exact readings are for ammonia and nitrite, just what the trend is and if there is any or not. I think it is much simpler to ask folks to use a dip strip and if there is any reading at all for ammonia or nitrite their tank is not yet cycled. The only problem is that they have to have different test strips for ammonia, and for nitrite/nitratres/pH and hardness or alkalinity. I have found that even though it is at the heart of keeping fish in glass boxes, folks still have a tough time with the Nitrogren Cycle, and asking them to use reagent test strips is just not going to happen -- and I'd rather thave folks use strips than nothing.

2) Water Changes -- although there are a number of products available now that make nitrates much less harmful in a tank, there still is nothing to replace doing a water change. However, the research done by all of the major mfrs says that 90% of people that have fish tanks don't want to get their hands wet, and that 90% will not do water changes. We can all preach the religion of doing weekly water changes, but the reality is that most folks don't do them. Therefore, they are better using some of the products that neutralize the bad effects of nitrates. Even if they use those nitrate reducing products, it is REALLY IMPORTANT that they do a water change before introducing new fish into their tank. The fish in the tank may have been able to get used to 100 ppm of nitrates, but taking fish from the lfs where they have been in low nitrates conditions and plopping them into the home tank with high nitrates is virtually a death sentence for the new fish. And any good store will be glad to replace fish that die, AS LONG AS YOU BRING IN A WATER SAMPLE. This is not the store being a pita, but the fact that if your home tank has high nitrates (or ammonia or nitrite, but it is usually nitrates) a good store doesn't want to simply replace the fish that died with other fish that will also suffer a similar fate.

Sorry for the rants -- but I've been sitting here writing since 9:00 AM, and I'm a little tightly wound right now.[/quote]but still making sence

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

bettasrcool — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:01:19 GMT

I can identify with #2. I have a 10 gallon tank right now with neon tetras and a few platies that I bought very recently and it is starting to look practically like a goldfish bowl. The java ferns are almost outgrowing the tank and so forth. The tank looked quite large to my eyes when I first began.

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

SKeith — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:15:34 GMT

You should also mention for a beginner to keep a log book. I found this extremely useful when I started out. It should have a section for your testing values, a section for your maintenance, a section for your deaths (when they died and how) and a list of all of the fish and plants (next to plants, list which ones worked in the tank and which died) in the tank. I found that this helped me to figure out what are my normal tank values and is very useful when your asking for help. Since so much work is done on a tank on a routinely, it's hard to remember when you did something and what values your tank was at.

Also under tank sizes, I would mention that a larger tank is easier for beginners in the since that a change can drastically effect your tank values quicker in a smaller tank than what they would have in a larger tank.

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

barbarossa4122 — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:51:21 GMT

Hi,

I did 50% water changes for almost 6 wks until my tank was cycled and it did not bother me one bit. Now I am doing 50% every Friday and my goldies are very happy. For testing I use an API master test kit.

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:48:56 GMT

I have the advantage over most hobbies in that most all my set up is a constant change system there are tanks inside that still have to be hand changed but not as many as there once were. If I could get water and drains to them easily there wouldn't be any that weren't constant change

Rick

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

David Lass — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:29:49 GMT

Completely agree.

Doing water changes and using a quarantine tank are the fishkeeping equivalent of going to the gym three days a week. Everyoneagrees they are excellent ideas -- but very few people do them.

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:29:20 GMT

The point of the exercise is to get people to change some water on a regular basis

We can all preach the religion of doing weekly water changes, but the reality is that most folks don't do them.

I can not stress the importances of doing water change a regular schedule, a 10% water change is much better that no water change. Maybe, I over state the importances of this, but it has been and will continue to be the cornerstone of my fish keeping method's

Rick

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

David Lass — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:35:23 GMT

The list is excellent, and I have only two comments.

1) Test strips -- I have run tests on liquid and dry reagent test kits vs. test strips and the test strips are, to my way of thinking, much better for the average/beginning hobbyist. You don't really need to know what the exact readings are for ammonia and nitrite, just what the trend is and if there is any or not. I think it is much simpler to ask folks to use a dip strip and if there is any reading at all for ammonia or nitrite their tank is not yet cycled. The only problem is that they have to have different test strips for ammonia, and for nitrite/nitratres/pH and hardness or alkalinity. I have found that even though it is at the heart of keeping fish in glass boxes, folks still have a tough time with the Nitrogren Cycle, and asking them to use reagent test strips is just not going to happen -- and I'd rather thave folks use strips than nothing.

2) Water Changes -- although there are a number of products available now that make nitrates much less harmful in a tank, there still is nothing to replace doing a water change. However, the research done by all of the major mfrs says that 90% of people that have fish tanks don't want to get their hands wet, and that 90% will not do water changes. We can all preach the religion of doing weekly water changes, but the reality is that most folks don't do them. Therefore, they are better using some of the products that neutralize the bad effects of nitrates. Even if they use those nitrate reducing products, it is REALLY IMPORTANT that they do a water change before introducing new fish into their tank. The fish in the tank may have been able to get used to 100 ppm of nitrates, but taking fish from the lfs where they have been in low nitrates conditions and plopping them into the home tank with high nitrates is virtually a death sentence for the new fish. And any good store will be glad to replace fish that die, AS LONG AS YOU BRING IN A WATER SAMPLE. This is not the store being a pita, but the fact that if your home tank has high nitrates (or ammonia or nitrite, but it is usually nitrates) a good store doesn't want to simply replace the fish that died with other fish that will also suffer a similar fate.

Sorry for the rants -- but I've been sitting here writing since 9:00 AM, and I'm a little tightly wound right now.

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

Lumberjack — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:39:25 GMT

The point of the exercise is to get people to change some water on a regular basis and it is alot easier to get them to change a small amount. Most who actually do regular water changes usually change far more then 10 percent once they get the stuff out to do the job....

(Dont tell anyone but I went to a 50 percent every two weeks with my 75 gallon tank.)

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

math-only aquarium — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:00:50 GMT

RWI: Remaining Waste Index: RWI=100(Days Between Water Changes)/(Percentage Removed Per Water Change)

Common RWI Values

100--30 days @ 30 percent
70--14 days @ 20 percent; 7 days @ 10 percent
60--15 days @ 25 percent; 30 days @ 50 percent
50--10 days @ 20 percent
40--14 days @ 35 percent
35--7 days @ 20 percent; 14 days @ 40 percent; 3.5 days @ 10 percent
28--7 days @ 25 percent; 14 days @ 50 percent
17.5--3.5 days @ 20 percent
4--2 days @ 50 percent

I prefer to keep my tanks in the 17.5-35 range. Some people do not like RWI system because it accounts only for aerobic filtration, but I look at it as a buffer zone: if something goes wrong with the plants or anaerobic bacteria it is nice to know that the tank will still be okay.

MOA

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:40:45 GMT

Lumberjack (7/3/2009)

True but there are averages and on average 10 percent per week is enough for most people so long as they are not overstocked....It is not a rule but rather a good starting place as each tank is different.

There are averages and IMHO on average most aquarist don't change water in such quantity,or quality as to fully meet demands, or needs of animals in our care. It true that 10% per week on average could be enough for a correctly stocked tank. but in most case I found it doesn't work long term

Rick

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

Lumberjack — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:29:02 GMT

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:31:47 GMT

I do believe this site usually reccomends a 10 percent weekly water change for a normally stocked tank.....

The size and frequency of water changes is dictated by the build up of nitrate in the system. There can never be one hard and fast rule set in stone.

Rick

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

Lumberjack — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:49:10 GMT

In many cases it is the presence of ammonia/nitrite that matters and the level really is not that important. Any indication is a problem that needs to be looked at. A quick dip of a test strip is better then no test at all.

I do believe this site usually reccomends a 10 percent weekly water change for a normally stocked tank.....

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

math-only aquarium — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:07:31 GMT

Cool,

Then we are basically on the same page.

MOA

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:28:40 GMT

[quote]math-only aquarium (6/17/2009)

Hey There,

I do not mean to nit-pick, but I disagree with number 6: the test strips vs. liquids can be a mute point. I used to do a lot of testing at the college laboratory and I found that if almost any test kit is over a month old, then they all can have about the same degree of error. Sadly, the test kits out there are not laboratory quality and even the best titration kit is still subject to oxidation and contamination. In fact, liquid and powder kits have a faster growthrate of error than do test strips (though the strips start further from the point of accuracy).

As per my experience, titration kits are more accurate to begin with, but, unless you plan on buying a new kit every month, there is no appreciable difference, especially for the beginner.

MOA[/quote]

I then to agree with you for the most part.
Trends in the test are much more important than actual number by that I mean there is little difference in a reading of 1.0 ppm and 1.5 ppm for NH3 as long as you know if NH3 is treading higher or lower. We use LaMotte Company test kits at work so thats want I use at home. You never get the same results from those tests and the AP tests, are they close? Sometime depending on the test. With what ever kits you use you can determine treads and that what counts in the long run

Rick

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

math-only aquarium — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:21:51 GMT

Hey There,

I do not mean to nit-pick, but I disagree with number 6: the test strips vs. liquids can be a mute point. I used to do a lot of testing at the college laboratory and I found that if almost any test kit is over a month old, then they all can have about the same degree of error. Sadly, the test kits out there are not laboratory quality and even the best titration kit is still subject to oxidation and contamination. In fact, liquid and powder kits have a faster growth rate of error than do test strips (though the strips start further from the point of accuracy).

As per my experience, titration kits are more accurate to begin with, but, unless you plan on buying a new kit every month, there is no appreciable difference, especially for the beginner.

MOA

RE: 10 common beginner mistakes

Fishlover5 — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:48:09 GMT

Very helpful. I'm sure beginners in the hobby and maybe even more advanced hobbyists can learn something from this.

10 common beginner mistakes

cooltow1 — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:13:24 GMT

Even a cursory look at the posts in the Forum Section underscores how confusing it is to be a beginner in this hobby. The questions come thick and fast, and in many cases, the answers contradict previous advice or long-held hopes - sometimes to a ridiculous extent. (No, despite what the fish store guy said, you can't raise an Oscar in a 10 gallon tank.)

As a relatively new hobbyist, I am only too well aware of what beginners struggle with. And to that end, I offer these 10 common beginner mistakes as a map of what NOT to do. Read and heed. Your future fish will thank you.

1. Do NOT automatically trust your local fish store (LFS).

I almost wrote don't trust them, period. But that's unfair. There are knowledgeable and credible fish store owners and employees out there. They key is to weed through all those who don't know, don't know that they don't know or don't care that they don't know. So test your LFS with questions you know the answers to. (Can I put neon tetras with African mbuna? The answer had better be NO!) And take notes of the answers and compare them to what you find online generally and on this site specifically. You might also try asking the same questions to more than one employee. The knowledge within a store will vary considerably. Try to find the "veteran" or the one employee who already has a tank or fish similar to what you want. In other words, find the planted tank nut at that particular store if that is what you are interested in.

2. Don't start too small.

This assumes you have not yet bought your tank. Even if you have bought a tank, consider whether you might want to upgrade sooner rather than later. To many beginners, a 20 gallon seems manageable. And a 30 gallon tank seems gigantic. Trust me, it's not. Your eyes (for fish) will quickly get bigger than your tank. And it's easier to keep your water parameters steady with more water volume than less. Based on my own experience, I would consider a 40-something to 55 gallon tank a good beginner tank.

3. Inappropriate stocking.

This hearkens back to the "can I keep an Oscar in my 10-gallon with a pleco and a school of neons?" This is where the poor LFS advice really comes into play. And this is where commonsense and on line research comes in. Here is the single most important sentence to keep in mind when considering your stocking list: Not all fish can live together and not all fish should live together, and your desire for a particular fish will not overcome either of those. So, tetras need to be in schools, even if that means you have fewer types of different fish than you desire. Same for cories. Some fish cannot live with others of the same species not matter how much you want a school, as someone will end up dead. Some need open space. Some need plants and hidey-holes. Some need soft or hard water. Be kind to your fish and stock your tank appropriate to their needs. We want them to thrive, not survive. And if the welfare of your fish are not your highest priority when stocking, please walk away from this hobby and taking up golf.

4. Too many fish.

This is very much related to the above, but brings in the much maligned "one inch per gallon rule," which most long-time hobbyists hate. I understand it is not a hard and fast rule, but I have to say, as a beginner, it at least gave me some sense of a yardstick. One good approach is to run your stocking list by the experts in forums for advice. Another is to start stocking slowly and stop while your tank still looks uncrowded. Wait a bit, let the tank shake out, and then decide if you can add something else. Patience is a virtue.

5. Ignorance of cycling.

There really is no excuse for this. There is an abundance of information on this site about what the cycle is, why it is important, how to start it and when to know it's done. Anyone who throws a bunch of fish in a new tank with a "hey, some may die but that's OK" or "but I ran my filter for two days, what do you mean that's not enough?" should take up golf. See above. Cycling really isn't hard. It's about establishing good bacteria to "eat" the ammonia and the byproducts of that digestion so that your fish are in a healthy environment. And, no, clear water has no bearing on your cycle. The clearest water in the world may still be loaded with ammonia and kill your fish. Read up before you proceed.

6. Inappropriate testing.

In a nutshell, buy the liquid reagent testing kids. Many recommend API. Do NOT use the strips. They are too difficult to read and can lead you to making incorrect assumptions about your tank. Get accustomed to testing regularly, to begin with, for ammonia, nitrite and PH. Testing becomes less frequent as your tank becomes more established. But it's your responsibility to know what the parameters are and take action if they are "out of whack." Which also means you have to know what constitutes "out of whack." Once you are cycled, your ammonia and nitrite should read 0 and your nitrates should register as something. (Anyone with 0 nitrates has an uncycled tank or isn't doing the testing correctly.) The amount of nitrate you tolerate in your tank is open to lengthy and passionate debate. I personally do not let mine get above 20, usually more like 10. Some people prefer 5. Testing for PH leads me to No. 7

7. Using chemicals to adjust PH.

Ah, this was a hard one. I started out the queen of PH chemicals, but managed to learn my lesson without killing any of my fishies. In truth, PH can be somewhat confusing. Your fish have an optimum PH level, but many can tolerate both higher and lower levels, within reason. The best advice I got was to use your tap PH without modification, as long as it was appropriately buffered (had a KH of 3 or more) and thus would be relatively stable. If your PH is higher than you'd like for your fish (mine is), look into ways to add reverse osmosis water. I buy Drink More in big jugs and use is half and half with my tap to keep my PH around 7/7.2 in my community tank. I use it straight for my African tank, which is buffered with limestone and special coral substrate to push the PH up a bit. Everyone is happy.

8. Not changing water frequently enough.

There is some confusion about this among beginners as it seems that many LFS suggest very minimal water change schedules after the tank is cycled, perhaps to keep from scaring beginners away. I was told I only needed to do a 25 percent water change once a month. Instead, based on advice from here and elsewhere, I do 20-25 percent water changes twice a week. This forum is full of big supporters of frequent water changes. The statement I like the best is this: Freshwater fish like fresh water. Enough said.

9. Panicking over algae.

Yeah, just like sh*&, algae happens. A newly set-up tank seems to follow a pattern of algae, starting with a soft brown algae that caused me to panic but which really, in hindsight, was not a huge big deal. Yes, green spots will grow on the glass. Get one of those magnet thingees; they work great. There is a lot of information on algae, the different types and what to do about them here and elsewhere. My advice on the subject is not to panic. Do your research. There are some nice fish and shrimp that can help, and there are ways to balance nutrients and light to get it manageable. The subject is too lengthy for elaboration here, but suffice it to say, it'll happen and you'll deal with it.

10. Not planning for plants.

I have a planted community tank. I knew I wanted to go with a planted tank when I first set up the aquarium, but I was too overwhelmed with trying to care for the fish, that I didn't want to think about it yet. I bought a bunch of plastic plants and I figured it would take me a while before I got to real ones. Nope. I started planting within a few weeks of getting the tank cycled. (Anyone want a bunch of plastic plants??) I then had to cope with a substrate that wasn't conducive to plants. It can be done, but I would suggest that if you think you might do plants, invest in one of the substrates i.e. Flourite or others, and mix it in with your gravel from the onset. That way you are prepared. It's very difficult to add it later and you are constrained, to some extent, on the plants that will do well in your tank without it.

I hope this information is helpful to those of you starting in this hobby. It can be confusing at first, but it's also fun and interesting and, when all is said and done, profoundly satisfying. Good luck and happy fishies!

Holly Harrington
AP Goldfish Community

Reposted by permission