FishChannel Forums / Freshwater Forums / Everything but Livestock / Custom Stand / Latest Posts

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:12:52 GMT

Well, IMO, always go for as big as you can. I would measure the inside dimensions of the stand, and then find the biggest tub or tank that will fit inside and still allow you to work with the bio-tower and fit plumbing.

The main issue you need to consider is just making sure you get something that will fit the bio-tower with room for the return pumps and maybe a heater or two, and one that will hold all the water that drains from the tank if the power goes out.

I have a 55g sump on my 125g tank, but I don't think you have room for that big a sump under your stand. I would think a 20H, 29g, or 30XH might fit inside your stand pretty well. Check out the measurements of the inside of the stand and let us know, front to back, side to side, and top to bottom.

Also, make sure whatever you get is large enough for the tower to fit inside it as well. And we're always glad to help

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:14:42 GMT

you guys are awesome. thanks for all the help. for a 90 gallon tank, what size sump do you recommend?

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:00:13 GMT

Well, that gray tub that came with the tank is probably what was being used as the sump. If it fits under the stand, you can use it. If not, or if you can/want to use something bigger, used aquariums work very well as sumps, and can usually be found really cheap on Craigslist or at an LFS. I would get the largest tank/tub you can fit inside the stand.

The tower will actually sit inside the tub/aquarium/sump. That way the water falls through the bio-tower, then exits the bottom directly into the sump.

If there is room, you can keep your heater(s) in the sump as well. Then, you will have your pump(s) sitting at the other end of sump from the tower. The pumps will be plumbed back up to the tank.

One thing I did was use rigid pvc tubing for the drain lines running from the tank to the sump, but flexible heavy duty tubing for the return lines. This gives me a little more flexibility in placing the pumps and water lines inside the stand. It can get complicated with lots of pvc tubing crossing back and forth underneath the stand. Or you can use all pvc, or all flexible tubing. Just make sure if you use the tubing you get heavy duty line rated for the maximum flow rate of your pumps.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:41:35 GMT

OK...now I'm starting to get somewhere. Love the pictures. Those are a great help. The opening underneath my tank is: 17 1/2" width x 28 1/2" height. Other than another smaller aquarium. What would you recommend I use as a sump (if I am using the right word) to put by box with the bio balls? Maybe the box is called a sump? Is the whole thing called a sump? I'll take this all 1 question at a time. Thanks again.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:01:23 GMT

As mccracker said, I would replace the standpipes and do all new pvc plumbing. I looked up all the pics I have from setting up my tank and sump, and here are all the relevant ones.

Pumps with ball valves for limiting flow or closing off pipes so that they can't drain back into the sump if turned off:

Sump biochamber with eggcrate/sunshade stand for bioballs:

Top of standpipe (drains from sump to tank):

Drain pipes dumping into sump through filter bag:

** You may want to use one of the junctions in the picture on the pipe that gets inserted into the top of the sump tower. This way you can unscrew the pipe to remove it in case you need to do maintenance or repair on the tower.

PVC returns emptying into the tank:

Hope these make sense. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. We'll help with any advice that we can.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:52:41 GMT

my stupid laptop gives me an out of memory on line 2 every time I log onto this site. Very agrivating. Anyone know how to correct this??

Go back to that store and tell the guy he's a DingDong!!!!

Realy it's very easy to setup the system you have. Replace the stand pipes and plumb it all into the hole on top of the bio-tower. Fill the rest of the tower with dollar store scrubies. Hardest part of your set up will be getting the pump sizes right. You want as much flow as possible with what you have. It looks to be 1" pvc that was used. this is going to limit the amount of water you can circulate derasticly. (with fish tanks over board filtration is prefered) If I am wrong about the size let me know.

I'm thinking that why they were using the 802s as return pumps (doable but not designed to be used that way) Bet it was a nightmare to keep salties in that.

be back tomarow......

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:03:25 GMT

went to the lfs and that was a total waste of time. The owner was unhelpful, unfriendly, told me online forums were useless, told me I should be buying a professional setup, and that he'd be willing to set things up for me for a fee. I understand he's in the business to make money, but doesn't he know that he'll get me to spend money indefinitely if he were to be useful.

So I am back at the drawing board. I don't think he smiled once.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:20:28 GMT

See what he has to say, and if there's anything that doesn't make sense or seems questionable to you, then feel free to double check here.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:50:32 GMT

I'm meeting with a very knowledgable owner of my LFS today. I have my pictures on my iPod. He says he'll give me options and tell me what I should and should not do.

When businesses take the time out to educate the customer properly, they gain customers for life. I guess I should wait and see what he has to tell me first, huh?

It's a little place and he's been doing this for 20+ years.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:00:33 GMT

Ah, I thought those were just permanent marker marks. That is stupid. He could probably replace that pipe with an uncut one and it would completely solve any noise problems, and would make more sense as well. It shouldn't be too hard to do Just remove the bulkhead from the bottom of the tank, and either remove the old piece and add a new, or completely replace the bulkhead and standpipe with new parts and seals.

Those angled cuts don't really make much sense to me, even for saltwater... the only thing I can think of is to prevent fish or inverts from getting sucked down into the sump, and that's a pretty easy thing to prevent.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:32:41 GMT

Conner the sides of this stand pipe has slots cut in it. The water will drain at the lowest piont (maybe 2 inches from the bottom). Will probly sound like Niagra Falls. It is also a relatively small diameter I don't think you will get much more then 5X turn over out of it.

This was a lousy set up for salt. It will work great for a planted tank.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:25:37 GMT

The plastic tub you got will work fine as a sump. The dividers are not nesisary. I do like the way Conner set his up though. Definatley use 2 pumps redundancy is a fantastic thing with fish tanks. A 40gln tank would be an ideal sump. You can probly find a used tank for a $1.00 a gallon at a LFS or even for free on Craigslist

Monsterfishkeepers.com is a great resource when developing a sump system or any other system for that matter. Look in the DIY and the filtration sections.

RE: Custom Stand

jsmith11618 — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:55:04 GMT

For a small sump you might be able to get a pre-made one cheap used or even new on ebay.

I got an 8 gallon off ebay with everything needed for 55 bucks.

RE: Custom Stand

FattFishy — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:43:12 GMT

A 5 gallon sump... about $50 or so?

Wow, that's great thinking, using the glass walls!

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:56:38 GMT

yah, I put those two walls in place for three reasons. One, it provides an extra chamber in case I want to add a second mechanical filter, or if I need to use carbon for some reason. Two, it helps to prevent any sediment from making it to the pumps, keeping the impellers from getting damaged. And three, it makes sure that if there is a blockage somewhere in the drains from the tanks, the pumps don't drain the entire sump dry. The wall keeps water on the bottom third or so of biomedia, which means the bacteria on these will last a little longer than the ones that would dry out.

Well, lets see. I'll try to remember the cost for each part. This will probably just be an approximate cost, though.

55g tank (used, needed resiliconing): $45
Glass divider walls: $5 (from local hardware store)
Filter Sock: ~$10
Bioballs and Plastic Scrubbies: ~$45 (30 for bioballs, 15 for scubbies)
Dual Pumps: $140
Acrylic for drip-plate and sump covers: ~$20
Eggcrate for under biomedia: ~$5

Total: $270

This is an approximate, since I don't remember the exact numbers. I think it might actually have been less than this, because I think the pumps were on sale when I bought them. This also doesn't include the plumbing between the sump and tank, but that shouldn't cost more than another $20-30 or so.

RE: Custom Stand

FattFishy — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:10:52 GMT

The chambers and the glass walls make the filter look high-tech. Love the way the water has to go under and over a glass wall.

How much did it cost? I'd might want to build a tinier version that uses only one pump and gravity as the other.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:20:21 GMT

Sorry for the delay, I've been busy the last few days. Here are some pictures of my sump.

Pipes from the tank, flowing into a 150 micron filter bag:

Water flowing over the first glass wall onto the drip plate:

Water flowing over the drip plate and dripping through the biomedia:

Water flowing from biomedia under a glass wall, then over another:

Last chamber in the sump, where the two pumps are located:

You can see the black lines drawn on the side of the tank. These are the different water levels. The one labeled "Top" is the max height of water in the sump when the pumps are running. If the water level is above this, and the power goes out, then the sump will flood the stand.

The two pumps are connected to two separate return pipes, which means that if one fails or gets blocked, then the filter doesn't stop running. This kind of redundancy is good, and you should definitely consider it.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:03:00 GMT

Actually, the standpipe shouldn't be that noisy, as it will fill most of the way with water. The water level should only be about 2-4 inches below the top of the glass overflow (it looks like). The open top on the white pipe will probably produce the most noise, a kind of sucking swooshing sound. If you want to reduce this, you could put a U shaped piece of pvc on the top, with a small hole drilled in the apex of the U, which would allow it to be self priming and still be quiet. If it isn't that loud or doesn't bother you, don't worry about it.

My pumps give me a tank turnover rate of about 12 times an hour. This is much higher than I need, but I like to stock lots of fish and plants. Those two pumps (I believe) produce 350 gph each at 0 head. Accounting for some gph loss at 3-4 feet of head, then you're going to be getting around 500-600 gph total. This will give you a rate of turnover between 5.5-6.5 times per hour. This should be perfectly fine for this tank, even if it is fairly heavily stocked.

The tower will work perfectly fine, I would just fill it to the top with either more bioballs, or the little plastic scrubbies you can get 6 for $1 at the dollar store. Those are what I use in my sump.

Keep all of the pumps, as you never know when you'll need one. And they're great for creating current in the aquarium, and for getting rid of any "dead spots" in the tank that don't get much water movement.

One thing that is very important when using sumps/trickle filters, is to make sure that the basin you are using can contain ALL of the water that will drain out of the tank in case of a loss of power. This is something you will test for when you are setting it up. This is something my younger brother just learned about the hard way with his (nearly) brand new saltwater tank. His apartment complexes power went out, resulting in his sump overflowing. Then, when the power came back on, since his power strip was sitting in a puddle, it shorted out the entire system. He lost one of his fish, and was frantically getting the power restored and replacing fried equipment. It's very good that your power strip hangs well off the bottom of the tank.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:35:25 GMT

BTW those old style ac 802'S are great power heads. You can buy the replacement impellers at some stores or via the internet. FAR SUPERIOR TO THE NEWER AC PHs. I have half a dozen of them that I will not part with.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:30:12 GMT

Good news is................ You have most of what you need.

Ditch the protien skimmer (save in safe place in case you decide to go salty one day)

Don't worry about the salt, get as much as you can off then get it running. The coraline remnats and such with slowly disolve (yes I have done it)

Is that the sump you plan to use or do you want somthing prettier?

The Bio tower is very functional but fill it the rest of the way with scubies.

Power heads are always good to have around so keep all of em for now. You will want to get better pumps sooner or later.

You want plants so your not going to need crazy turn over (my 240 does at least 1700gph I've never done the math on it). Can't remember what Conner wound up settling at. I would want 4 times ph min.

Side hole was bad planning by previous owner (or maybe a chiller was plumbed through it) your returns should just come up over the back to a spray bar.

I don't realy like your stand pipes. The water falling from the top all the way to the bottom of the corner tower is going to be niosy. This is easily remedied though with several cheap options.

Bad news is................. You arn't done yet.....LOL

RE: Custom Stand

jsmith11618 — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:31:40 GMT

gulfsidebo (10/13/2008)

you are referring to the white pipe that i mentioned that i had no idea what it was for?

Sorry, yeah thats the one I was referring to. Its used to remove organic wastes from saltwater aquariums.

Salt is well, not fun to remove from aquariums, can take a lot of labor depending on how many years worth of salt there is there.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:45:21 GMT

you are referring to the white pipe that i mentioned that i had no idea what it was for?

RE: Custom Stand

jsmith11618 — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:39:29 GMT

Its a protein skimmer and I don't believe they are of much if any use in freshwater.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:44:57 GMT

I have a bunch of pictures....I hope these make sense and I hope this isn't overkill. Thanks in advance.

Here's the bio balls and filter case. I just got brand new blue media sheets. This needs to be cleaned. I was told to just use water and maybe some white vinegar.

The filter was in this tub with two pumps (included in another pic).

Here are the pumps. Two Powerhead 802's. Remember, it's a 90 gallon tank.

Looks like another pump, but I don't know what for.

Air pump under the stand.

Drilled hole underneath.

Drilled tank. Remember, this was a saltwater tank at first.

I have no clue what this is. I think it was used for saltwater only.

This looks like an undergravel filter pump. I don't think I need this.

Side hole in the stand. I am pretty sure the out-take pipe comes out this hole.

Tank and stand with light fixture. There's no top. There's also salt residue I can't seem to get off the glass. I already tried water and white vinegar. Any other suggestions?

All I've done so far is strip the stand, put new moldings on, stain it and put on 3 coats of polyurethane.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if that was way too many pictures.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:38:17 GMT

I have plants in my 125g tank using a trickle filter. I think the only problem I'm having with them is that my light isn't quite as intense as I need it to be. I dose with Flourish and Flourish excel regularly, and that's helping them to stay pretty healthy. I do need to upgrade my lighting soon though, I only have 1 wpg or so on this tank.

RE: Custom Stand

Mrcracker2u — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:25:37 GMT

Let us see the parts you got? I'm sure we can talk you through setting it up.

You can still grow live plants with a trickle filter. They do affect gas exchange and will never get a high co2 level in the tank but many people have and do grow plants in these systems.

My 30gln plant tank is set up using........

1 part potting soil

3 parts dirt

1 part sand/gravel blend

at almost 1 year I can say it's doing better then I had ever imagined.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:28:52 GMT

thanks for the link...gonna get readin'

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:25:33 GMT

if it's no big deal to post pictures, i'd really appreciate that. i can also take pictures (tomorrow) of the quipment i DO have. i know i have a device for the trickle filter (plastic with holes, new filter media, bio balls). there are two pumps too. i wish i had the ability to have someone knowledgeable come by, look at my equipment and show me what to do, but i don't have that luxury at the moment. i went to my lfs and they showed me their setup, but of course, everyone's setup is different from each other. the guy earlier today warned me of using a trickle filter for live plants due to too much oxygen, but he said he wasn't quite sure.

btw, it's a 90 gallon tank originally used for saltwater. it's a drilled tank and that's throwing me off. many of the setups i've been seeing have two pipes (similar to the ones you posted).

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:50:43 GMT

Looking good! I forget, what size tank is that?

Also, what supplies/parts do you have for the trickle filter? It's basically just a box divided into multiple compartments. First compartment is where water from the tank enters and is mechanically filtered, usually with a 100-200 micron filter bag (I use a 150 micron filter bag). Next it flows over a divider wall onto a drip plate, forming the "trickle-filter" part of the filter. The drip plate allows the water to drip down over a large area of biological media. The dripping also allows for a large amount of gaseous exchange to take place. The water then usually flows under a divider wall, and then to the third and last compartment, which houses the pumps to return the water to the tank. I use two pumps for increased flow, and backup redundancy. If one fails filtration doesn't stop.

This is a very simple version of a trickle filter. You can add more divider walls/chambers so that you can add more kinds of filtration, such as an extra mechanical filtration step, or a chamber for chemical filtration, such as charcoal.

If you want, I can post some pictures of my sump/trickle filter setup to show you how I did it. It's not really as hard as it sounds, depending on what kind of container you use for your filter.

RE: Custom Stand

FattFishy — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:40:17 GMT

Time for my 2 cents.

Potting Soil Substrate: http://lowlightlowtechplanted.blogspot.com/

This article will explain nearly everything about potting soil that is from say, Lowes or Home Depot. I'm currently in the process as well, keeping it in an ice box in the garage.

River Rocks: Just be careful of any substances inside that might alter your water chemistry, use the vinegar test! Drop vinegar on the rock and if it bubbles, the rock is unsafe.

Hope this helps.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:31:34 GMT

I got the stand (minus the 2 front and 1 side door) done. I will attempt to post some pictures.

My next steps are to figure out how to get this trickle filter getup all set and working. Of course, I have no clue what I am doing. I think I'll post in another subject for any tips. I figured, once I can get the filter working (leak free) I'll empty the tank and then work on getting plants growing in a substrate prior to cycling the tank for fish.

If anybody has any suggestions for setting up a trickle filter (i already have the parts, but no plans---i got the equipment from a friend's brother) please let me know.

for substrate, i was thinking of going with potting soil and river rock from home depot. anyone have any luck with that? well, here's a go at posting pictures.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:23:24 GMT

Good to hear back from you, and can't wait to see the stand! Don't worry, I still haven't put the last two doors on my stand. Although spending the summer in Alaska makes it hard to get much done at home... I'm going to have to take some new pictures of my tank as well. The plants have been growing pretty well, considering there really wasn't anyone taking care of the tank besides feeding for the whole summer!

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:37:05 GMT

Sorry for bringing up an old post. I've been out of it for a while and my tank is slow going. That's what having 2 little ones will do to your free time. It's all good though. I can't believe it's been 4 months though.

I've made progress on the stand and will take some pictures tomorrow. it's all stained with new moldings and a new reinforced top. I have to add 3 coats of polyurethane and do the doors. I'm still looking at having everything up and running by Christmas...crossing fingers.

I haven't been in the forum in a long time either. Getting back into the swing of things. Hope y'all are doing well.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Tue, 27 May 2008 09:23:49 GMT

The entire stand/tank project created another tumbling effect and it caused us to re-do our living room. I have to hang a curtain rod and paint a few more quarter rounds and then I can get back to my stand. It's always something, huh?

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:52:42 GMT

Definitely. I love to see how other people set up their tanks and stands. My brother just bought a 125g tank like the one I have, but he bought a pre-made sump to save time. He's going to be building his stand over the next month or so, I think.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Mon, 12 May 2008 05:06:18 GMT

No, I haven't sanded the top yet. Going to go with a dark stain, new trim/moldings (next) and polyurethane. It'll be a while until it is done, but I'll post progress if you are interested.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:59:07 GMT

Have you/are you going to sand the whole thing and re-stain it, or are you going to add trim and just re-seal it?

Some new trim and maybe a new coat of polyurethane will really spruce that up! Can't wait to see it finished.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:11:02 GMT

Here's the existing stand with it's new top. I just got the moldings today so I will work on those next.

RE: Custom Stand

Conner — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:00:40 GMT

yah, its just the edge of the plywood

I did add the two outside doors before I had to leave town, but not the middle two. Hopefully my dad will be able to add them while I'm gone. Just the two doors helped deaden the sound of the sump A LOT.

RE: Custom Stand

gulfsidebo — Wed, 07 May 2008 07:30:03 GMT

in your picture, what is the blue stripe on the top of the stand?

silly me, is that just the edge of the plywood?