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I was just curious (and not trying to double post  ) I have a post about a plant problem, but this is more about water that I'm asking which I thought deserved it's own thread. I was looking up plants and other tetras because I'm thinking of adding utah ice/gypsum rock to my tank to harden the water a little bit. I see that a lot of site's with the specs have water hardness and water ph as two different categories. My question is, if your making your water harder does it raise the Ph too, or are they two way separate things that aren't related? And yes I loved science in high school but when we got to chemistry I went from an A+ to a C  it never made sense to me!!
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I'm sure bto will post soon explaining the exact difference between the two soon.
But, if I remember chemistry correctly, hardness is a measure of calcium and/or magnesium ions. pH is a measure of how many H+ ions are in your water. (the more H+ ions, the more acidic) So, they shouldn't affect each other unless there are other properties to whatever you'd be using to raise the hardness.
55 gallon
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Calico Ryukin - Serafina
midget lionhead - Kiko
Lionhead - Little Bean
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| OK, I actually got an A in college chemistry but I've probably forgotten some things. Anywho: pH--"per hydrogen"; a negative logrithimic, base ten relationship between hyddrogen ion content and a given liquid. For instance, if your pH is 7, then your water has about .0000001 moles of free hydrogen ions in it (or about 1.008x10^-7 grams). Thus, the lower your pH, the more hydrogen ions it contains. More hydrogen ions means greater acidicity while fewer hydrogen ions makes water more alkaline. Hardness--"the measure of appreciable multivalent cations suspended in a liquid relative to the per capita mass of the liquid"; in other words, hardness refers to how many alkaline earth metals are suspended in your water and is essentially one measure for mineral content. Test kits usually only give you calcium-based hardness ratings. If you want the real story, get a very sensitive scale, weigh a small plastic container empty, then fill it with water and weigh it again, allow the water to evaporate, reweigh with the hard water spots (the suspended minerals), and then perform the following calculation: Hardness = (weight of container with water spots - weight of container without water spots)/(weight of water and container - weight of empty container) x 1,000,000
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| While water hardness and pH do not necessarily go hand-in-hand they often follow a trend in that hard water usually has a high pH while soft water has a low pH. This is the result of the fact that many dissolved minerals will inhibit the presence of free hydrogen ions one way or another. However, this is only a generality. In truth, you can have extremely hard water that is equally extremely acidic or vice versa. Also, soft water tends to have a more dynamic pH than hard water. In other words, since soft water doesn't contain many dissolved minerals, its pH changes more easily than the pH of hard water. (Again, generality)
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math-only aquarium (1/25/2008)
In truth, you can have extremely hard water that is equally extremely acidic or vice versa.
I think this is actually the issue some people have been having recently. kH (buffering capacity) is interrelated between the two, when you have the situation wherein your water is very soft, but still has a high pH, it does weird stuff to your water.
55 gallon
Black Moor - Damian
Calico Ryukin - Serafina
midget lionhead - Kiko
Lionhead - Little Bean
Serafina and Bean's babies:
Baby
Westie
planted 29 gallon
2 german rams m/f
5 cardinal tetras
4 albino cories
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True, buffering capacity is a major issue when you have a polarized case (an exceptional case). FYI, maraqua, buffering capacity is basically the relative ability of your water to actually maintain its pH. Buffering capacity is created by specific dissolved minerals (like gypsum) that inhibit the flow of hydrogen ions--thus keeping your pH stable. That is also the reason why most hard water has a more stable pH (it already contains some of these minerals).
Check Out the Freshwater Stocking Guide: http://board.fishchannel.com/Topic132702-5-1.aspxMOA's: How Many Fish: http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/
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| Okay so if I put this gypsum/utah salt in my 20 gallon my ph should be fine and it will just harden the water a little. Also to measure this I would need a gh/kh test right? Now I was told goldfish should like the hardwater, I read though that rummy nose tetras like soft water. Is that true? and if so what small tetras around 1.5-2" will like water on the harder side?
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| The gypsum will harden the water a little, but not much in most cases as it doesn't release many free multivalent cations. Also, it won't keep the pH 100% stable, but it will help considerably. So you're right about that. With regard to what the different species prefer, consider this: Most common species, though originally from areas with specific water chemistries, have been bred in captivity for so long that many have adapted to varing pH, hardness levels, etc. So, in the net, it isn't your specific water chemistry that you really need to be concerned about--more important is being able to keep it consistent. As such, it is generally a wise choice to use whatever pH you have from your tap (so long as it's between 5.5 and 8.5) and simply increase its buffering capacity a might (adding the gypsum). Also, regular, frequent water changes help keep the water chemistry stable. Therefore, don't worry too much about specifics, worry about consistency and acclimating new fish properly. IMO, of course.
Check Out the Freshwater Stocking Guide: http://board.fishchannel.com/Topic132702-5-1.aspx MOA's: How Many Fish: http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of tests kits because a) they are often horribly inaccurate relative to laboratory tests and b) they often take up time that could be spent fixing the problem (water changes). That is not to say that test kits are are inherently evel or anything--just realize that if you already know something is wrong, you don't need a test kit to confirm it and a test kit will not, in and of itself, fix it. No less, test kits can help persons without much experience diagnose particular problems and thus can be handy to have on hand. (Just don't rely on them so much that you omit common sense.)
Check Out the Freshwater Stocking Guide: http://board.fishchannel.com/Topic132702-5-1.aspxMOA's: How Many Fish: http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/
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I'm one of those with very very soft water yet it is off the charts alkaline (like 8.2-8.6). I've given up on decreasing the PH because it only jumps back up in a day or so, and I've heard that is tough on the fish (6 Danios, 1 Molly). So I'm resigned to this water, if I leave it alone it is pretty stable, and one day if something ever happens to these guys I'll stock the tank with guys that like high PH soft water (does anything exist that thrives in that kind of water?).
Finncatt
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