re creating a natural enviornment

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Posted 4/6/2011 1:02:39 PM
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Here is another newbie question. I keep reading that we need to re create the environment the fish come from in the wild, but all of my fish are tank bred and raised. My local story has been using his breeders for years and they all come from water with a higher ph than is suggested for some. This includes neons and Discus. I was wondering what thoughts those of you who are more advanced have about this. Do you ask what they are raised and kept in and recreate that or where their ancestors came from in the wild, as sometimes the two are not the same
Post #222224
Posted 4/6/2011 7:03:20 PM


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even if they are captive bred they may still have water requirements that they still need to thrive, and on top of that re-creating their natural environment looks a lot cooler than a bunch of treasure chests and volcanoes in my opinion.

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nano reefs are fun


Post #222257
Posted 4/6/2011 8:48:40 PM


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Discus will eat neons. Problem 1 solved. Problem two is really variable.
Post #222264
Posted 4/7/2011 7:33:16 AM


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Even if they are captive bred, creating the natural water conditions might be a better choice. It all depends on the fish your talking about. If it were neon tetras, you could be a little flexible on your water parameters, so they could live in their natural water conditions, such as soft acidic water, or you could keep them in some mildly alkaline, slightly hard water, which they can adapt to over time. With discus, you'd have to ask someone who really knows a lot about discus. In my opinion, discus have a low tolerance level for any sudden changes in what they were raised in. For the discus, it's either success or failure, depending on a) the type of water chemistry they were raised in and b) how healthy the discus is. It might be better to acclimate them EXTREMELY slowly to soft acidic water over time, because that's what's natually healthy for them. Just my two cents. Hope I helped!

_________________________________________

Five Gallon: empty QT/breeding tank

Thirty Gallon: one gourami, one angel

Forty Gallon: one angel, two german blue rams, six bronze cories, seven pristella tetras, three rummynose tetras, two gold honey gouramis

Fifty Five Gallon: one salfin pleco, one shibukin, one fancy gold shibukin, two comets, one common

Post #222282
Posted 4/7/2011 9:30:01 AM
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I have always wanted to have a big aquarium in my living room, but I want my aquarium to be a genuine replica of the fishes' natural habitat...maybe someone can help me get a good supplier...
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Posted 4/7/2011 11:48:15 PM


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The fish you buy at the LFS are the products of thousands of generations of farm breeding (with a few exceptions which must still be wild-caught).  Their "native" waters are most likely those in southern Florida or the Pacific Rim.  The important thing is to avoid any drastic change in water chemistry, whether you're trying to mimic their ancestral waters, or trying to acclimate them to your hometown tap water.

People don't often talk about it, but I think it's a good idea to run a chem panel on the fish store's water, then compare it to your own.  You might be surprised.  The fish you're thinking about buying could be doing great at the store, but they could get sick in your tank even though your water is closer to their correct type, just because of the sudden change in water quality.  (Note:  I'm not talking about cycling issues: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.  I'm talking about pH and hardness.) 

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Post #222332
Posted 4/8/2011 12:01:21 AM


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Cruises Perth (4/7/2011)
I have always wanted to have a big aquarium in my living room, but I want my aquarium to be a genuine replica of the fishes' natural habitat...maybe someone can help me get a good supplier...

I'm happy to recommend a great book, The Complete Aquarium, by Peter Scott.  It's kind of expensive but you may be able to find it at the library or a used copy on Amazon.  This book illustrates very specific biotopes from all over the world, showing you exactly what they look like in the wild, and the fishes that live there.  Examples:  Amazon rain forest stream, Southeast Asia backwater, Central American rocky lake, Papua New Guinea sandy river, West African floodplain swamp, etc., etc.  It's not really a beginner's book but you'd still find tons of useful info, and this is probably the type of guide you're looking for to set up a "genuine replica" tank.  The book shows finished tanks for all the different ecosystems and the pics are really excellent.  There's also a section on marine and brackish.

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Post #222334
Posted 6/10/2011 5:51:10 PM


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The reasons for simulating a fish's habitat is so that they can be happy and healthy.

55 gallon

13 zebra danios (adult)
2 harlequin rasboras
2 assassin snails
2 spotted danios

20 gallon

2 white cloud minnows
4 zebra danios (fry)

6 gallon

? snails

2.5 gallon: 3-5 unknown fry

bucket: zebra danio fry
Post #225294
Posted 6/16/2011 10:40:32 PM


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This is a great topic and I thougth I would add my 2cents worth,

I am a firm beliver that fish need substrate, plants,Dw, Rocks (not all together sometimes) but the main issue should be for any aquarist is to try and give your fish the BEST that you can and this is very important in how we scape our tanks. The facts are that it is our responsability to acheive a healthy and happy enviroment for all our fish because WE own them!

I have been breeding fish on and off for the past 20yrs and I yes I did at one time breed in a clean tank (zero substrate) and had high yeilds however I also was allowing un healthy fish be sold into the market via wholesalers, I say unhealthy and this is because the fish I was breeding such as Discus and L's where breed in such a clinical environment that if /when they where subjected to most other aquariums they had a higher mortality rate as there imune systems had not been fully developed due to IMO enough healthy & nastey common bactiria as I was more concerend to get 100% success rate instead of allowing nature kull out the less robust.

So about 10yrs ago I changed all my breeding set ups to having substrate and also plants/DW/rocks etc to suite the fish's natural habitat (as much as possible). The result of this I started off with my discus only having a 20-40% survival rate however after the healthy discus grew I agan breed from them and so on until my success rate is back up to 80-90+ survival rate of fry and this means that when I sell any of my fish they are healthier and I have not had a fish sold come back to me.

If every breeder focused more on there fishes health/comfort FIRST this industry would have better quality fish by far.

Just 1 more thing if people kept a dog/cat/ horse in the conditions that sadly 50% (or more) fish are kept they would be arrested and people would be in a up roar. If you wish to buy/keep a fish than make sure it is to the fishes advantage first and you will always be happier and so will your fish.

Sorry for the rant but I can be a tad passionate about all fish.

Cheers

Johno

Teach a man to keep fish and his wife will forever hate you.

Proud member of QLDAF.com.au

Post #225542
Posted 6/17/2011 5:56:57 PM


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Yeah, what Bristlenose said, (and said well, I might add).  There's even more to it.  You have to remember that all our fish species are the result of a long evolutionary history; sometimes millions of years long.  As a result, they're optimized to handle certain levels of ph and hardness, as well as lighting and temperature.  When kept in different conditions, it affects many things; osmoregulation, metabolic rate, their ability to synthesize needed compounds and, perhaps most importantly, their ability to resist pathogens, (which are ALWAYS present to some degree).  So while fish can survive and, often, breed in less than optimal conditions, it is generally best to provide an environment that adheres as closely as possible to the conditions they've evolved in.  It makes them healthier, happier, more colorful and longer lived.

135 gallon Lake Malawi tank, (electric yellows)

120 gallon (clown Loaches and strays)

60 gallon Planted, (tetras, cories, otos)

50 gallon brackish, (mollies, violet goby)

29 gallon brackish, (GSP)

7.9 gallon Fluval Flora, (betta)

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